Creative curiosity – interview with Dr Rosa Vásquez Espinoza

Searching for microbes in the “boiling river” of the Amazon – where the water reaches temperatures of nearly 100 degrees Celsius – or studying and campaigning for the protection of Amazonian stingless bees may not at first sight have much to do with the day-to-day jobs of most internal auditors. However, as Dr Rosa Vásquez Espinoza will explain to those attending this year’s Internal Audit Conference on 3-4 October, her experiences in the Amazonian jungle have taught her many lessons about risk, teamwork and communication that are relevant to anyone working in corporate governance and assurance.

Furthermore, Espinoza will discuss why she believes that the preservation and protection of the Amazon environment is vital not just for ecological and sustainability reasons, crucial as these are, but also because of the untapped potential and opportunities that may come from scientific studies in this region. Again, these are issues that should be close to the heart of all those working in internal audit who are repeatedly urged not just to protect their organisations, but also to help them spot and develop opportunities.

Last, but not least, Espinoza’s experiences provide an example of why a tenacious pursuit of evidence and a refusal to be deflected by negative feedback is essential if people are to make new discoveries. Until very recently, most people in Peru believed that the boiling river (first officially located by explorer and scientist Andrés Ruzo) was a myth. Even those in communities a couple of hours’ away said it didn’t exist.

Similarly, stingless bees, which are native to the region, are not recognised by the Peruvian government, and therefore beekeepers are not supported in the same way as those who keep the stinging varieties. Espinoza has dedicated her professional life to seeking out such neglected, under-explored and misunderstood subjects and helping to inform and communicate via her writing, speaking engagements and television series. She is the founder and executive director of Amazon Research Internacional, an organisation dedicated to advancing conservation and knowledge of Amazonian biodiversity and culture through science, capacity building, conservation policy and storytelling.

Build trust

“None of this is possible if you do not first build trust,” she says – again, something that should resonate with internal auditors. “There are two key issues here, first we have to build trust and long-term relationships with local communities and indigenous groups and, second, we have to develop trust with the government, which tends to be reluctant to change and therefore we need channels of communication to help it to understand the need for more protection or support.”

Tell stories

This is where the story-telling skills come in. Espinoza uses her understanding of the cultural issues and historical reasons for distrust together with her scientific expertise to explain why tiny microbes that can survive in a boiling river matter, and why stingless bees and other Amazonian creatures need protection.

“People everywhere need to understand why the Amazon matters and how their daily actions, however far removed, can make a difference,” she says. “Generally, people hear about the Amazon on the news because the forests are being cut down and it’s on fire, or they believe it is dangerous and that if they go there they’ll be eaten by an anaconda. We try to find a narrative that communicates that this environment is vital and to explain what we can do.”

Organisations and individuals will not change what they do unless they believe that their actions make a difference, she adds. She therefore tries to relate her work to something more familiar to her audience. For example, when telling students in the US about the microbes she studies in the boiling river, she asked them to study those that survive boiling conditions in Yellowstone National Park. The organisms and environment are completely different, but by explaining that it was a curious scientist working in Yellowstone in the 1950s who paved the way for the development of PCR, used in Covid tests, she engaged their interest and encouraged their scientific curiosity.

“I tell them that if someone could find that in Yellowstone, how much more potential is there in the much more life-full Amazon river?” she says. “What might we discover there that could help us in future?”

Cultivate curiosity

Curiosity, tenacity and a willingness to ask questions and pursue a hunch in the face of accepted wisdom and cultural opposition – this should all sound familiar to internal auditors. “There is a real risk that we will miss opportunities if we do not consider all the options with an open mind and look for things beyond the obvious in lots of different places,” Espinoza says. “People said nothing could live in water at 100 degrees C, just as they said the boiling river didn’t exist,” she adds. “Now we have found these microbes and other mind-blowing things.”

This brings us to the other core element of Espinoza’s work – the intrepid expeditions to remote parts of the Amazon river that inform her science. These have also taught her many lessons about risks and about managing teams. All expeditions are risky, but she believes that you are best placed to mitigate those risks, not by trying to prepare for all eventualities in advance, but by knowing your team well before you start and by remaining adaptable as things happen.

“You need humility,” she stresses. “You have to start by saying I’m going to pursue this course, but it may be a dead end or it may be great.” And if something goes wrong, you need to be able to make decisions quickly without worrying about individual egos, she adds.

Adapt fast

In one of her expeditions, she went out on the boiling river with a group of seven colleagues. They did not expect to return after dark so were not equipped for a night in the jungle. Disaster struck when one man stepped in boiling mud while wearing sandals. They still had some way to go through virgin jungle and the injured man’s feet were then attacked by fire ants and he began to go into shock. Night fell and they had to decide what to do – quickly. They still had to cross the river and, at night, all they could see was steam.

“I had the most medical training, so I stayed with the group and tried to keep the injured man calm and prevent him going into shock,” Espinoza recalls. “The person we thought most able to navigate the river in the dark went back alone to camp to get help.”

No room for egos

This story had a happy ending, but could easily have gone horribly wrong. Espinoza says that you need creativity to adapt to problems as they occur, but you also need to trust the people you’re with and know their strengths. “You have to put personal issues aside and make decisions quickly to use what you have to do the best you can in the circumstances,” she says. “There is no room for egos.”

She adds that it was not surprising that it was the most experienced member of the team who injured his feet. People who are trying something for the first time tend to be exceptionally careful and remember everything they have been told, she explains. Those who have done it many times are the most likely to become over-confident and make mistakes.

“You can’t prepare for the unpreparable, but you can remind people about the risks of being over-confident and ensure that you have a culture that enables everyone to ask questions if they see risky or reckless behaviour,” she advises. “Our team came from different cultural backgrounds and spoke multiple languages. We had to make sure everyone was equally able to express their concerns.”

Know yourself – and your team

As a leader, she found it was important to understand how team members preferred to communicate and how they reacted to challenges. “Leaders need to identify the best people to do different things in a crisis and the best way to get their message through to everyone. You need to put your own ego to one side and make sure that you talk to people in a way that gets them to do their best performance and contribute in the way you want them to,” she says. “If you push someone out of their comfort zone at the wrong time in an expedition, you could put people in danger.” 

Time spent before an expedition getting to know everyone and building relationships saves both delays and risks later on, she explains.

“The key issue to all of this – from finding the area you want to explore to building relationships – is creativity,” she sums up. “You need a childlike imagination to find things that people haven’t seen before, whether this is stingless bees or the solution to a problem. You can be an explorer in an organisation just as much as you can on the Amazon.”

This article was published in September 2023.