Lessons from Rugby Union: an interview with Ollie Phillips

Managing people in periods of high stress or during a crisis is tough. However, how you succeed at this may well prove the deciding factor in how – and even whether – you emerge on the other side.

This was the core message from Ollie Phillips at our virtual Internal Audit Conference this year. And he speaks from experience – although his idea of what constitutes “high stress” or a “crisis” may not be exactly what everyone expects from a director at PwC.

“When I was competing in the Clipper Round the World Race we got rolled over by a huge wave as we sailed from Cape Town to Australia – there were terrified people falling all over the place,” he says. “People reacted differently. Some were exhilarated and excited by the danger, while others just wanted to lock themselves in a cabin and never come out again. As a leader you have to understand both reactions, leverage the energy of the people who were fired up by it and find something of value that those who were terrified could do that distracted them from their fear and gave them something positive to focus on.”

Phillips’ background as a professional rugby player and captain of the England Sevens had given him experience motivating and managing teams as well as lessons in personal resilience. His glittering sporting career was cut short by a serious injury and, having been named Rugby Sevens World Rugby Player of the Year in 2009 and Overseas Player of the Year in 2011, he suddenly had to reassess his life.

One thing sport had taught him, however, was that it’s possible to snatch success from the jaws of defeat. He had captained the England rugby team in its first ever Rugby World Cup Final in New Zealand when they ended the first half 17-0 down to the home team. “Everyone in the crowd was loving watching England being pulped,” he says. “We went on to win the game 19-17.”

After his injury, therefore, Phillips turned to a variety of other challenges – from the Clipper Race to cycling 3,000 miles across the US in eight days and breaking a series of world records for organising and playing in the most northerly rugby match (at the North Pole) and the highest game of rugby (at the Advanced Base Camp on Mount Everest). He’s also raced a rickshaw from the south to the north of India.

The challenges have clearly been fun, but also immensely tough – mentally and emotionally as well as physically. Two people in a group heading to the North Pole with his team died falling into a crevasse and he admits that the rugby game they played on Everest was “pretty brutal” with the high altitude making it difficult to breathe.

Image: Ollie on stage at our virtual Internal Audit Conference

Phillips has raised £2.7 million for charities en route, but he has also continued to learn what makes different people “tick” and what helps a leader inspire loyalty and effort from them. When he joined PwC, he decided to combine this knowledge with formal business training and completed an EMBA at Cambridge University (earning a blue for playing in the university’s Varsity rugby match to his other trophies).

He is now putting this unique mix of experience and business acumen to good use as PwC lead partner, Department of Culture, Media, Sport (DCMS), heading the team that deals with the firm’s relationship with DCMS and with the various subsidiaries that the department funds and supports, such as Offcom, Channel 4, Tate Modern and the BBC. In addition, he is head coach for the Welsh women’s rugby team and has founded a leadership and motivation consultancy, Optimist Performance.

The most important lesson he has learned, he says, is that leaders need to invest serious time and attention to talking to, and listening to, their teams. “Your people are your greatest asset – but they are also your greatest liability,” he explains. “It’s much easier to get the best from them in a crisis if you have already gone to the trouble of getting to know them well and you understand emotionally how they act and what their life goals and priorities are. If you ask yourself how you can help them to achieve these, and they see what you have been able to do for them, most will feel loyal and grateful and will help you in return when you ask something of them.”

If you put this time and effort in when the ship is sailing steadily, he adds, it’s much easier to get all hands on deck when you hit rough seas. In a crisis, there’s usually no time to look at what went wrong or why, but you need to get everyone working together constructively to help the whole team emerge unscathed.

People need to feel that they are trusted and have the freedom and responsibility to act, but they also need structure and to have a clear idea of what good looks like, he explains. This is impossible without strong relationships and communication. 

“If I could ask managers in a crisis one question, I would say ‘how much time are you spending among the weeds, and how much are you spending working with, and talking to, your team?’, he says.

One person is unlikely to be able to solve a crisis alone, but it can be tempting for managers to avoid talking to their team if they feel that they lack answers or cannot give the reassuring responses they know people want to hear. This kind of avoidance inevitably makes things worse, since it exacerbates fears and isolation and makes everyone act purely in the way that seems to suit their own best interests.

Many good leadership maxims are often said, but more rarely followed, Phillips says – especially in periods of high stress, such as the COVID-19 crisis. “When everyone’s going through a turbulent time, listening and talking to people is more important than ever,” he stresses. “How you deal with this is critical – nobody has dealt with a situation like COVID-19 before and most of us hate being criticised or admitting we don’t have the answers, but leaders need to make sure that all their people feel as safe and confident as they can in the circumstances. If people are panicking their fear will affect everyone else.”

No single person is going to find a solution to the pandemic, and successful responses to the threats it creates – physical, emotional and economic – are all likely to require people to work together. But, as Phillips has seen first hand, the teams that work together when the ship rolls or when the opposing force seems unconquerable can achieve incredible results.

Ollie is a director at PwC and runs Optimist Performance, which offers consultancy for organisations and individuals on teamwork, leadership, resilience and change.

This article was first published in September 2020.